Wal-Mart

Welcome to the forum KMV.

I haven't read the article yet so as usual I will have to give an uninformed opinion [;)]. I do believe that it is a shame that the "box stores" have taken the place of the mom and pop shops of the past. A lot of harm can be done to a town as well as to the people who used their own blood, sweat and tears to build their local businesses in the area. They can offer personal service but that can never compete with the buying power of the monoliths.

A great example of the harm I am talking about is Kauzlers. You could not walk into that store without being greeted by someone with in 30 seconds of arrival. If you went into the store and said you were looking for a "doohickey" that goes on the end of a pipe. They could take you right to that "dohicky." That doesn't happen at Home Depot. You can go in there and tell them exactly what you are looking for and if you are lucky you may manage to get an employee to point and grumble an isle number to you. Assuming you can even find an employee who will give you the time of the day. Anyway, back to my original point.

Wolohan and 84 Lumber came into Three Rivers long enough to run Kauslers out of business and then they both later left leaving the city without a hardware store. Three Rivers, at least commercially, is not all that unique. This type of thing is happening all across America. Mom and Pop shops are being run out of business by "box stores." The new stores don't really care about the town, the people or the history they are ending. All they care about is making a profit for HQ located somewhere else.

Now, on the other hand, America is a capitalistic country. Open competition and (a mostly) free market economy has made it one of the most economically powerful countries in the world. When you add to that the fact that most people want to buy more with less you have a situation ripe for "boxed stores." People will go where they can save the most for their money.

I think they are inevitable and if we don't welcome them here they will locate elsewhere. How would that be good for the future of Three Rivers? Take a look at Portage. It doesn't look as though the "boxed stores" have done any ever-lasting harm to it. I think Three Rivers will survive these stores also.

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Laissez faire: leave the people alone, let them be, in their economic activities, in their religious affairs, in thought and culture, in the pursuit of fulfillment in their own lives.

As a candidate for 4th district commissioner, I personally glad to see Walmart looking at our community and hope for the best. We need the competition with Meijers in order to have more places to shop without traveling to another town for lower prices.

burton, are you just saying that because you're running for public office and need votes or because you really think Meijer's prices are too high? Meijer is already competing with other local grocery stores and offering pretty decent prices, i think. will WalMart just mean another empty store at the corner of Broadway and 131? is the lowest price always the highest good? i'm pretty unusual, but i'm willing to pay higher prices for a higher quality product, better local character and higher business ethics.

buck, i appreciate your balanced view. i was pretty upset when i first read the article and i'm still planning to make sure there's an organized way for citizens in opposition to have their voices heard by those making the decisions, but i'm starting to realize that WalMart will not be competing for the business of those like myself who try to make consumer choices based on principles other than money. unfortunately, this means we may end up with two distinct consumer cultures in Three Rivers, but i certainly think one culture will naturally feel a higher sense of satisfaction than the other, having made principled decisions.

much more than an organized effort AGAINST something, i see this as an opportunity to organize FOR something--for a Three Rivers that is truly unique with local businesses that offer something money can't buy, whether that's a vision for justice, a small town charm, or any other number of attributes that a big box like WalMart is too "small" to contain.

kmv I like your attitude. I think your idea of an organized effort FOR something will be much more successful then one against (I have been in the against column on other issues and it can be lonely).

I have been known to call myself an unapologetic capitalist. However, there are times when I think the "common good" is more important then my capitalistic tendencies. Being a (political) right leaning libertarian I would never dream of using laws, the government or force to impose my principles on others. I think the best way to promote my idea of "common good" is to practice what it is I would prefer others to do. And when appropriate encourage others to do the same thing. It may only make a small difference but it does make a difference.

By the way, how do you come across this forum? I'm just curious.

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Laissez faire: leave the people alone, let them be, in their economic activities, in their religious affairs, in thought and culture, in the pursuit of fulfillment in their own lives.

i won't say we will not be vocal against WalMart coming to town because i think a lot of people haven't even questioned its corporate ethics and the way it ultimately discourages many freedoms on the local level. a protest that gets even local attention might help people start asking some important questions about the intentionality of their shopping habits.

however, whether WalMart comes to town or not, this project could and should be the beginning of many relationships that will benefit the local community and lead to fruitful ventures. as much as possible, i want to emphasize the good that can come from working together on a positive vision, because i think it will be easy together and hold a big bi*** session about how much WalMart sucks (the life out of a community, that is).

and i think i located your forum when my husband and i were looking for information online about Three Rivers. we just moved here about two years ago and googled a bunch of terms just to see what we could find. it's nice to find friendly folks as a new person on the board. thanks, buck. i'm glad to hear that your political leanings don't rule out attention to the common good.

Well feel free to use this forum as a sounding board. Even though the posting has been pretty light lately this site gets somewhere around 4 to 5 hundred page views a day (on average). There are worse places to set up a soapbox [;)]

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Laissez faire: leave the people alone, let them be, in their economic activities, in their religious affairs, in thought and culture, in the pursuit of fulfillment in their own lives.

Kmv,

Welcome to the forum! What type of questions would you encourage people to have concerning walmart? I know they are a national company but other than that I am unaware of anything negative.

Thanks,

Ronda

"I never consider a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend." - Thomas Jefferson

Welcome to the Forum Kmv.

For the record I'm sorry my point came across the way it did. However I do believe certain Items at Meijers are too high because of being the only major retail store next to Walgreens and Rite- aid. As for wanting Walmart to come too Three Rivers for votes sounds to absurb, long before I got in the race to run for public office friends and family long before complained of Meijers prices and wished Walmart would come to our area. When and if elected in November I know and realize this will be a hot topic for months to come.

Feel free to email me at the following
burtonjohnjr@hotmail

thanks for the welcome, burton, and for some clarification of your original point, which sounded a bit like a "politician's soundbyte." [:)]

i'll have to do more solid research in the coming days, but WalMart has been in my peripheral vision for a while, since i take particular interest in the viability of the local community and the ethics of business practices. below are some general questions I have about WalMart:

-Why aren't their employees, despite countless efforts to do so, unionized? Are WalMart's efforts to union bust illegal? Why is WalMart afraid of unionization?

-When WalMart continues to lower its prices, where are they cutting costs? Are the shareholders, the executives, the store employees, or the producers paying the difference, and in what proportion? Is this cost-cutting ultimately beneficial to the consumer?

-Why should WalMart get tax incentives to come into a small town when their store inevitably interferes with locally-owned businesses? Does the pattern of having WalMart put smaller stores out of business really benefit the small community in the longrun?

-Why are many full-time WalMart employees still receiving public aid and unable to afford the medical "benefits" WalMart offers? Does WalMart create new jobs in a community in a sustainable way or do their low-wage jobs replace better-paying jobs as small businesses cannot compete?

-Why does WalMart carry so many exclusive products? Are they making agreements with companies in an ethical way that encourages continued growth for supplying companies or are they forcing their hand as the largest retailer in the world and wrapping up the fate of smaller suppliers with their own?

Are these questions reflective of reactionary arguments against WalMart that you've all heard before or is some of this new to you? I don't want to be out there merely "banging my drum" against WalMart, because the fate and character of our community are not entirely dependent on whether or not they come to town. But I do think we can be critical of their practices and therefore be critical consumers, as opposed to the "always the low price" robots they would have us be.

I more than aware of your view points, my only thought was about having new jobs in the area after Meijers laid off all their baggers not to long ago. As for sounding like a politician- believe me this is all new too me for getting involced in this capacity in politics ,I'm hoping that I not too far over my head when and if elected come November.

kmv said: Are these questions reflective of reactionary arguments against WalMart that you've all heard before or is some of this new to you?

I have heard all those points before (Bill Maher on PBS). I do tend to think they are a little reactionary. However that doesn't mean they shouldn't be asked. Asking questions is the only way we can build informed opinions.

kmv said: I don't want to be out there merely "banging my drum" against WalMart, because the fate and character of our community are not entirely dependent on whether or not they come to town.

Agreed.

kmv said:
But I do think we can be critical of their practices and therefore be critical consumers, as opposed to the "always the low price" robots they would have us be.

While I agree in principle that is going to be a tough sell. My family spends somewhere around $150 to a $175 dollars in groceries every week. If I can save $25 ti $50 buying them from Walmart instead of Meijers why wouldn't I? That could be a $100 to $200 extra dollars a month in my pocket. As I said its going to be a tough sell.

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Laissez faire: leave the people alone, let them be, in their economic activities, in their religious affairs, in thought and culture, in the pursuit of fulfillment in their own lives.

convincing people to pay higher prices will definitely be a tough sell. a counter-argument is that we will end up paying in the longrun through higher policing costs and public aid for underpaid employees, not to mention the very real potential for some of us losing our jobs and businesses as a direct efffect. but even this is hard to quantify, especially when people can see an immediate difference in savings. more and more, it seems built into our culture to prefer the low price over high quality/principles and the short-term good over the long-term.

but i'm hopeful at this point that there may be enough people in our community who are concerned about the long-term good of Three Rivers to actively do something about it (and by "it," i mean more than just WalMart). there's going to be a meeting of these folks on Monday, September 25 at 37 N. Main Street, if anyone here is interested. you can join that e-mail list by going to http://www.worldfare.org i imagine the key issue initially will be WalMart, but hopefully it can blossom into something pro-active for the future.

As it looks as I was delivering the Three Rivers Commercial today, it looks as the whole business district is opposed to Walmart coming too town, what a shame, we all complain and gripe when we hear of a business wanting to leave our area, but some people complain when new business looks at us too.

After November I'm going to unsubscribe to this site due too all the negative people who post here, I can't remember reading a post congratulating the city for something good.

Somthing totally different than all the hoopla concerning Walmart, what are every ones thought on the School Milleage coming up on September 25th.

As it looks as I was delivering the Three Rivers Commercial today, it looks as the whole business district is opposed to Walmart coming too town, what a shame, we all complain and gripe when we hear of a business wanting to leave our area, but some people complain when new business looks at us too.

Great point.

After November I'm going to unsubscribe to this site due too all the negative people who post here, I can't remember reading a post congratulating the city for something good.

Huh? Who's being negative?

Burton you must have short memory cause there are several [;)]. Here are a few, if not congratulating the city they are (at least) congratulating the people who are getting things done (in the city).

• Progress of the airport project


• Brownfields


• Siren


• Three Rivers in top 100 small towns list


• Congratulations Fred Burnett on Liberty Bell award


• Gary LeTourneau will discuss 911 Dispatch


• Citizen Emergency Response Team

Heck Burton the very thread you posted in has been positive (so far [;)]). One of the things that has always drove me nuts on this forum is that some people see honest disagreement as wrong or a negative. It is neither of those. It is what makes this country great. We have the ability to engage in open discussion without fearing for our lives.

I am not going to try and talk you into changing your mind about unsubscribing from the forum. But I do think that if you become a commissioner that you should, at least, check in from time to time to see what (some of) the people you'll be representing happen to think about the issues facing Three Rivers. Positive or not.

You know, another example of the point that I am trying to make is the Local Site: Cultivate Three Rivers. Oppose Walmart thread. I disagree with the purpose of that site. However I am so appreciative of the effort and the way that she and her group are trying to accomplish their goals I gave them a plug. If that is negative I don't know how I could ever make you happy.

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Laissez faire: leave the people alone, let them be, in their economic activities, in their religious affairs, in thought and culture, in the pursuit of fulfillment in their own lives.

Buck believe I would visit time to time to see what people are saying about issues facing us if elected come November. Just this afternoon I was checking some pros and cons concerning Walmart,I went to ggogle and typed pros and cons of walmart and clicled either the 3rd or 4th link on that page.