Character First!

I think it could get interesting when we get to some of the more controversial Gothard traits

I missed the "sermon" last Tuesday but I understand that the use of generic products in place of name brand products was encouraged. I thought the featured trait was resourcefulness not cheapness.

"Error indeed has often prevailed by the assistance of power or force. Truth is the proper and sufficient antagonist to error." - Thomas Jefferson

One of the things that truly amazes me is the ability of a madman to water down his radical teachings and still have your ordinary citizen be able to speak your words with only a base model to go by.

Bill Gothard tells his followers what to buy, how to plan a shopping list and how to spend thier money. If you watched this months character trait then you are able to see how this was done. I must say I was truly insulted by it.

Still

Let us also not forget the other wonderful character traits of Mr. Gothard's. Like limiting my personal freedoms, being grateful for the chance to serve my authorities, instantly and joyfully obeying your authorities, and all the while not thinking too highly of yourself.

Now take a child out of an environment full of challenges and start teaching that child this nonsense. What you now have is good old "homegrown prey". Monsters who prey on children also take great pains to put themselves in positions such as priests, teachers, and mentors to enable them access to children.

MUST I SAY AGAIN THAT THE CF PROGRAM SETS WOMEN AND CHILDREN UP FOR ABUSE! OPEN YOUR EYES PEOPLE BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE! THE ABUSE OF ONE CHILD OR ONE WOMAN DUE TO THIS PROGRAM IS INTOLERABLE!

I think TRAM is a wonderful program and I hope the board realizes what a huge mistake this is and has the character to remove it.


Still

Greetings from Indianapolis; I posted yesterday and am in contact with more people with concerns, and again this is God showing me that now GOD IS IN CONTROL! He has opened the doors for the Darkness to be exposed, and those that claim to know him, know him not! Please if you have a King James version Bible read Mark 9:42. I spoke with a friend of mine in AR. who knows Gothard very well, and told me that Gothrd knew exactly what he did and that was to get into little churches from the churches it runs into streams, from streams to rivers (three rivers<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>) and now it's in the ocean! It took me just a short period of time but please this isn't just about CHARACTER FIRST that's a part they now are trying to conceal, it's al about CONTROL,DECEIPT,ABUSE! Bill Gothard uses a chain of command and yes, we all have a chain of command to follow in life, do we listen and follow that chain? According to Bill Gothard you in three rivers are now doing just that FOLLOWING Gothards Chain of COMMAND! Your children are following his chain of command and your not included in that chain,unless your a part of his organization.I will not answer to Gothard, I will answer to God when I die, and i know just like each and every person who has concerns here or Gothard discussion, or anywhere around this world who knows his teachings or is affiliated through Character cities, or ATI families, or ex-Gothardites, but we all know, and now unlike before because this has been exposed before is now GOD"S TIME, and HE"S NOW IN CONTROL. Look at the tools that he's provided now it's up to each and every single one of us to use these tools and STOP the CHARACTER that I don't want my children to have, or anyone elses, God is showing the TRUTH the LIGHT the WAY, and when children, young people have come forward and have been so very brave and soldiers of Jesus Christ, whether they are 'christians or not" they no longer are leadders for Gothard! Now, is the time to go more public and as a group of believers, of what's right. Remember the victory is already yours now what are you going to do with it? We have to help those who can't help themselves and this is why children have came forward so others aren't hurt as they we're or CONTROLLED in a way that's hurtful to the CHILDREN OF AMERICA! Let's pull together and have a conference, and let our cities know what's going on, the public has a right to know what they are paying for. Hugs from Indy Chelle, I'm not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the TRUTH the LIGHT the WAY!

Chelle

I would like to post just a few things that a "leader" wrote to the Gothard discussion group, and it's in the archives so if you would like to read more or other testimony's feel free to visit. Also, I will leave some other websites of testimonies you can read, and I have personally been in contact with numerous people who posted and we're the one's who came forward. (I understand from some who have been there that they call it a "prayer room" Many of us would call it "solitary confinment" When a LIT (leader in training) comes into the ITC they are placed in a "CHARACTER SUITE" for a period of time ranging from 3 weeks to the longest I know of 4 mo. The point of the initial confinment is to "break the haughty spirit of the life in question". Now, that I look back I see how incredibly foolish and wrong that whole process is! During this whole time there's no contact w/ anyone other that the 2 leaders.Meals are eaten in the room, the leader only is allowed outside the building 2 x's a week! The young lit I was working with was displaying what Mr. Gothard called, abnormal,disturbing, and immature behavior, he was given the initial 3 weeks in the prayer room,mininum time is 2 weeks. The bedframe was taken leaving him only a mattress blanket and pillow. His clothes we're taken, leaving only his briefs. The only thing in the room was a Bible,"Gothards version", pencil and notebook, which he listed his assignements. I have never seen an AFRICAN AMERICAN become pale, but after his 3 mo. 2 week stay in the prayer room this young man turned pale. The young man devised a way to open the back side of the mattress, using one of the springs he shorted the speakers that was installed in the room, that announcments came over. He blew a fuse abled the security on his door. He was able to go down the hall pull the fire alarm which made the building clear out, and he was able to find some clothes. He successfuly pulled off his escape, and I'm now in contact with him and he attends our Bible Studies.) This and more can be found or just talk to those who I know personally.This is the help that our TAX DOLLARS are paying for, and now as you can see the control factor is overwhelming, and it's in our government even worse than before.Our schools are now "CHARACTER SUITES"!! My final note is this is a NON-LICENSED FACILITY.The leaders have problems and we're most generally sent by their parents who are ATI,(Gothards church families) and the parents considered them 'rebellious" and this is why they are sent to the centers, they are leaders over the children who have been sent by the juvenille courts, with no one that is a licensed counselor. This is what is in your city as well as many others, and a new one to open in Arkansas, very soon! The new center is already posted on the IBLP website. I have alot more testimonies,and one young man in particular when he got back to Florida his probation officer told him he's been through enough and took him off probation. Hugs from Indy Chelle Isn't it good to live in AMERICA?

Chelle

At our last city council meeting Steve Talley was proposing the payment for character first and it was tabled, the heat was on, and he had 16 democrats who voted with him, but William Dowden the cheif of council had the proposal tabled knowing we had the invoices, and payment vouchers.William Dowden then proposed Character First training for after school programs and the public was not allowed to speak during any of this. If anyone wold like to speak with Steve Talley concerning this issue, his e-mail is talleyjs@aol.com The one payment voucher I found very sad was a Character first breakfast for $95.00 and it was called TRUTHFULNESS vs. DECEIPT paid by Marion CTY. Superior court, and who pay's them.....TAX DOLLARS! This is all so quaint. I believe the seminar for truthfulness vs. deceipt was no truth taugh but all decipt!

Chelle

itc_breakingfree,

Thank you for keeping us updated on what is going on down there. Hopefuly we can get in contact with the other cities involved with CF, BG, and the IBLP.

TRUTHFULNESS vs. DECEIPT paid by Marion CTY. Superior court, and who pay's them.....TAX DOLLARS! This is all so quaint.

I can't wait for that trait to come up here.

"Error indeed has often prevailed by the assistance of power or force. Truth is the proper and sufficient antagonist to error." - Thomas Jefferson

I have a question. Should the test of every city purchase be "who's pocket are we lining?" When the city buys a Microsoft product for their computers some of that money goes in Bill Gates' pocket. I have a few friends who really don't like that idea. If the city buys a Ford Taurus some of that money ends up in Bill Ford's wallet and I know some people who sure don't like that idea. When the school sold the old high school to Riverside Church, don't you think that amounted to increasing the wealth of that church? I sure know some people who didn't like that. Do you really think any of these things are BAD for the city? If a product satisfies a need isn't that the greatest test that it should meet?

Personally, I don't believe that it is harmful to talk about basic principles in public. I say, "Let's talk about resourcefulness! Let's talk about kindness! Let's talk about truthfulness, for heaven's sake!" I don't care who put the package together just like I don't care what motivates someone to step forward and serve the community. I know a lot of the people who are leading these discussions all over the city and I trust their judgement. I know that none of them has spent even an hour in a "Character Suite" and they aren't going to. They want what the rest of us want - neighbors who respect each other and have the dignity to show it. If the Character First program can move us in that direction, then I say GOOD!

Personally, I don't believe that it is harmful to talk about basic principles in public. I say, "Let's talk about resourcefulness! Let's talk about kindness!

Me neither but I resent being forced to learn some one else’s brand of character. If you want to be a part of it by all means sign up for it and go to the weekly meetings.

Let's talk about truthfulness, for heaven's sake!"

Again I agree with you that is why we formed Liberty 1st the truth was not getting out before. They denied the connection to the IBLP until we provided proof. That don't deny it any more.

I don't care who put the package together just like I don't care what motivates someone to step forward and serve the community.

Wait until you hear from some of the people that have been victims of the orginization that put this package together. It will turn your stomach. I do care what motivates people to step forward because power in the wrong hands can be very dangerous to the powerless.

They want what the rest of us want - neighbors who respect each other and have the dignity to show it.

That is what we want also but I do not want it in exchange for my personal liberty. I do not want it as the risk of conflicting with my own religion. I do not want it because CF is about submitting to all authority without question. How can you force good character through authority. It is learned through example and example only. Why waste 40,000 dollars on a program when demonstrating good character in your every day life would be good enough.

If the Character First program can move us in that direction, then I say GOOD!

If you executed every person who demonstrated bad character, eventually you would get a city with the definition of character that you desire. But would it be right? Would the ends justify the means? Would you still say GOOD?



"Error indeed has often prevailed by the assistance of power or force. Truth is the proper and sufficient antagonist to error." - Thomas Jefferson

Edited by - bhicks on 04/05/2002 2:02:38 PM

The response from tiger is exactly what this nation is all about but remember it's ok to agree to disagree.I would like to quote something that is written by Bill Gothard in one of his many "big red books which is called "Research in Principals of Life basic Seminar Textbook"pg 31 *Imagine the discouraging circumstances of being captured by a godless foreign government, having to leave your family and home knowing that you will be commanded to do things which are against Scripture; *Learning to understand what those in authority are really trying to acheive is essential, especially when we are commanded to do something which violates Scripture or moral convictions;pg35#6 Expect God to bring outside pressure on the authority*Expect him to respond with extra pressure on you*Realize God will use his pressure for our ultimate benefit* pg116#12Those who have redefined scripture or God "to fit in with their immortality will be quick to advance their idea's in order to "enlarge their world". In "their world they have decided what is right and what is wrong". They are men of corrupt minds. Titus 3:10&11 They willingly believe a lie. @ thessalonians 2:11 ***Please notice this is all written by Instuctor:Bill Gothard I just wonder if he realized all he's stated has now come back upon him!Bill Gothard and so many others have enlarged their world and have decided for you and I what's right and wrong, they do believe their own lie!Bill Gothard teaches things that could have been a good thing if that person would have not taught CONTROL,or was deceiptful. Which as my momma always told me ""be sure your sin will find you out!" The things Bill teaches are these all the traits you want your child to have tiger? Do you want to put your child in one of his centers that they are put in confinment for day's weeks, months? Very little if any food or water? Do you want to be told that your child is going to be removed from one center and taken to another in the middle of the night and will never see you again? So, your child decides the only way out is to break a glass on the 13th floor and climb down a pole, that gives way and he falls to the ground and could have just been killed becaue your authority say's that now we are in CONTROL you no longer have any rights? If you are a "christian" and you want your child do learn more about the Bible and become a better christian and they go to a center but they are doing nothing but work from morning to night,no training in anything you thought he/she was going for, and they get out and go to the local community college w/ the credits it took them months to receive but never did, because you now find out that this "faith based center" is a NON-LICENSED facility, and they are told by the college administration they are not accredited, sorry you need to go back and get your GED!You want young people that are so confused in their own lives to come into your school and say this is WHAT CHARACTER FIRST IS ALL ABOUT!These folks at three rivers are trying to speak the TRUTh, the LIGHT the WAY, now it's your choice to decide, while you still have a choice! Anyone doubting that Character first and character council and character cities are all tied with Bill Gothard they are and it was on the IBLP website till 3 weeks ago, and it was removed,WHY? If anyone has any questions please fell free to e-mail me, and for me I'm not ashamed of Jesus Christ. Hugs from Indy Chelle

Chelle

This is somehing you all can find at http://members.tripod.com/Glenwood37/y2k.htm It was written quite a few years ago, and now look how true this statement was.As, we all know the word "character" has come to mean more to the American public in the past year than at any other time during our lives. The word "character" which was redefined by Gothard over 30 yrs. ago has alway's been one of his key words. Gothard also has a published course that he has taught with the help of some loyal cult memebers in select schools around the country, and also in several countries. The course is referred to as: CHARACTER FIRST. The plan is to swarm the presidential canidates with an array of offers from help with the campaign, to use their curriculum in all AMERICAN public schools. Mr. Gothard hopes to soon be proceding in his destructive schemes with full support from the new president of the U.S.Gothard can call over 20,000 American family members of his cult, he can rely on legal agreements made w/ government of foreign countries, he can pride himself in knowing hundreds of thousands have completed the basic life seminars.Bill has been buying up forestland in AR. so that all of his cult members can move out there soon, and live together in safety. Sounds too much like a back drop for a modern day Jim Jones rerun, all in real life. Again i urge you to read this site and see the date and notice all newgrowth has stated has and is happening, WAKE UP!She has other things there to read as well. Thank God for soldiers of Jesus and pray for the leaders of Gothard. Hugs from Indy Chelle

Chelle

Good morning! It's sat. and I'm wondering if any of you have tried to log onto the IBLP site since yesterday or any of Gothards sites for that matter the last 2 day's? Many people have tried and we cannot load the sites are down...I'm assumming it's for even more changes, I hope you've had lots of ink for your printers!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>Ever since this has happened here in Indy, all his sites have been changed with alot of contents removed, or added. Isn't it nice to not have to do all the extra work on all your many sites this weekend? I'm going to enjoy mine! There's a few of us who have talked about starting a Yahoo chat room, but we need help to keep it running if you can help please let me know, and help spread the word, there's many hurt and confused people who have come from Gothards teachings. I can't be on 24/7, I need to enjoy my weekend remember? Have a great day & weekend Hugs from INDY Chelle

Chelle

<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>Hello all; I have some new info if you have your printers ready.. before the changes take place again. Log onto (www.billgothard.com/testimonies/greenlaw.php* print *)
read down till you read about CHARACTER FIRST then click on (*print*character training institute) it will take you to the (print*IBLP webpage/Gothards picture.) If you need to again see that Character first and IBLP is one in the same type in; character training institute through yahoo and(*print # 9 is IBLP website) to make the coralation between the name's.It all goes right back to the IBLP site.The character first was removed from the IBLP website a few weeks ago but follow this and you'll have the proof w/ the picture of Gothard to boot.

Chelle

Chelle,

Unbelievable, they have taken all reference to character first and even the 49 character qualities from the IBLP off their websites. It's too late to hide now there are many of us with the truth. So much for the character qualities of truthfulness and boldness.

Keep up the good work!!

Still

<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>Hi everyone!Thankyou still for your support but please don't give me credit, like I've stated God has opened the doors and now we need to do this, since there are many who cannot speak for themselves out of fear. I just noticed that this month according to BILL GOTHARDS character first calander that April is considered &gt;TOLERANCE month w/ the eastern box turtle, How fitting, because my tolerance to this whole issue is very UNACCEPTABLE.As some of you will see the whole realm, and quite a realm it is, it dosen't involve what Bill teaches but just the opposite, and if he would have met me on FEB.13th @9:00a.m as he said I could have seen first hand his TRUE CHARACTERISTICS; enough said I didn't need to meet him, I've seen enough. And enough it is,as long as people stop discussing all of it and get up and call the media, daily call your local papers,call Gothard!K, sorry had to vent!Unfortuantly, I have been in contact with many who are STILL hurt by the teachings, and not the teachings that HURT them it was the CONTROL,ABUSE,AUTHORITY, that has made all this come to pass.I know their are still HONEST,TRUTHFUL, people in this world and these are who God has sent my way, so to him be all the PRAISE! Keep GOD in CONTROL and he will do what we cannot.Another site that was given to me by Karen at the Gothard discussion you will SEE that CHARACTER FIRST is listed on the IBLP site. You may want to rint it out before the archives come up missing also. http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://iblp.org
look under public service December 12,1998 there again is CHARACTER FIRST and there's more but you need to check the dates! Hugs from Indy Chelle and let's work together in unity for JUSTICE and LIBERTY for ALL!I also have documentations for characterfirst being "signed" off so the government is happy, if you would like a copy e-mail me

Chelle