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itc_breakingfree

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Talk to strangers?

Three Rivers Area • Apr 5, 2004 10:29 AM

I have just obtained a e-mail concerning a lawsuit, and guess who is envolved? I have forwarded the e-mail to Buck & Gretta and for those of you who can get the site to pull up I will post where it is found. www.faithandaction.org/PDF/Elk%20Grove%20v.%20Newdow.pdf If anyone cannot get that to pull up, I can e-mail it to you, just let me know. The suit envolves a school! Buck & Gretta received a copy if there yahoo names are still the same..lol Again, if you 2 didn't receive let me know where to forward the info. Hugs from Indy Chelle Chelle

My CF Address

General Topics • Mar 14, 2004 9:11 PM

Hello there, in Michigan! I wanted to state some things that, I had went back and researched today at the IACC website otherwise known as the character city website.(www.charactercities.org My initial statement would be to start, that when you log onto the site one of the very first things stated is "International Association of Character Cities" Then directly below is: Family seminars - BG has to get his plug in there as well! Question ? IACC was formed in 1998; not by the info I have but that's neither here nor there in this post! **Also keep in mind they state that this a TAX-EXEMPT Corp.** Is this as the old saying goes; Your just beating a dead horse! One website page has one of the animals and is: DECISIVENESS VS. PROCRASTINATION Then the definition which they seem to make fit so well to their advantage as with a few others, The ability to RECOGNIZE key factors & FINALIZE DIFFICULT DECISIONS! My question since Three Rivers is now a character city.. Have you collectively RECOGNIZED key factors in what CHARACTER FIRST TRAINING actually is all about, and I know that for many it was a DIFFICULT DECISION, but has it totally been FINALIZED? Now HONESTLY, again since you are a CHARACTER CITY have you done what you have been taught by your AUTHORITY, in the CHARACTER TRAINING that was IMPLIMENTED by your CITY LEADERS and as CITY COUNCIL!? That was not the end of the paragraph it ends with, "I will look at things from MORE than ONE POINT of VEIW BEFORE MAKING UP MY MIND!" Reality as it may be noone will EVER AGREE on any subject matter, but when this VERY subject has been so CONTROVERSIAL to not just a few but many who have lead their families and own personal lives the way they we're ADVISED to do by AUTHORITY and have nothing, but PROOF to show what was taught, was about AUTHORITY and to who, not you who think you are in AUTHORITY there even in Michigan, but you have to even answer to who? Those who advocated the CF program and where it has decended from; Bill Gothard.. Yes, Bill Gothard and his programs are in many cities, why because it's not about having character it's about $! It is also stated under Character Cities: What do you want for your city? Being able to picture a better way of life for those under your AUTHORITY is called vision! Yes, BG had a vision and thanks to folks like those of you who are now under BG's AUTHORITY, and implimented the CF program have helped fulfil his vision... I'd like to leave this post with this in mind: It is also stated; "Character is the inward MOTIVATION TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT, WHATEVER THE COST!" You each have motivation, otherwise you wouldn't be on city council, you wouldn't have accepted the CF program, but to those who have voted against CF and the teachings I applaud and say thankyou for listening to those who know PERSONALLY what BG is and has done, and taken a stand against a man who promotes his way of life for us as a city, family, or individual! What has this CF program done for your city so far besides caused CONFUSION, arguing and is this what CF was suppose to do? FLEXIBILITY VS. RESISTANCE WILLINGNESS TO CHANGE PLANS OR IDEAS ACCORDING TO THE DIRECTION OF MY AUTHORITIES! EACH of you on CITY COUNCIL are in AUTHORITY over those who are in your city,and it's ok to resind something that was brought to you by DECEPTION and show as AUTHORITY figures, we accepted CF, but we can change our minds COLLECTIVELY & INDIVIDUALLY and say we would rather be HONEST then have BG's in AUTHORITY in what is taught in school, or in our very own city council seminars! CLOSE the BIG RED BOOKS,Turn of the OVERHEAD PROJECTORS, and OPEN THE DOORS TO CITY OF THREE RIVERS and Invite those in who can share personal testimonies, to why you we're a GREAT CITY before Gothard, and will remain a city of CHARACTER, TRUE CHARACTER! Hugs Chelle Chelle

The doors are open again!

General Topics • Mar 11, 2004 4:10 PM

I was just looking through my notes from the investigation that was done, this particular post was sent to the Gothard discussion group on Wed.2-13-02 by a young man who was ATI, and family also,read this and show me the compassion in this letter! Metochoi; "I've been asked to keep my mouth shut about CPS and their investigation until they make it public"so in light of the lawsuits I see pending, I'll keep my mouth shut on that end... I do know CPS has been inside the ITC and the investigation is proceeding, but that's all I can say.. My personal contact w/ Gothard has been not so personal..I talked w/ Mr. G on Mon. night, and was told..quote.."Mr. Gothard is quite concerned about some of your internet post (I'm assuming the ones on this list as this is the only one I'm on) and would like you to consider withdrawing from that forum..."Now that isn't an exact word for word quote, but it's pretty close.. Now,as for my recent silence, I've stopped posting due to that call..not because BG wants me to, but because I know that I'm prone to posting without thinking when I'm this mad, and I don't want to post something i will have to apologize for.. I'm really to the point where I just don't care what happens to BG and his wonderful little empire, and I really don't care about what happens to ITC either... If you read between the lines in the above comments, you will see that BG obviously is either on the list himself ( I doubt if he could refrain from posting if he was) or more likely, has someone else on this list reporting to him.. MY COMMENTS DIRECTLY TO YOU MR.GOTHARD: If you have a issue with me or my post,please,please have what it takes to call me directly..Don't go through my family,don't go to Mr. Gergandie, don't go through mututal "friends" CALL ME DIRECTLY! You have my contact info. or can get ahold of it. I'm man enough to own up to what I've said on this list, and am willing to discuss each and every post and tell exactly why I posted them and why even now I stand firmly behind each and every one of them as the honest truth..Nothing more, nothing less.. BTW as Corrie knows, I was considering leaving the list even before I talked to Mr.Gergandie Monday Jason Chelle

The doors are open again!

General Topics • Mar 11, 2004 3:51 PM

Thankyou Buck; I wish I was returning under different circumstances but unfortunatly! I spoke to the "mom" today and she had some questions, such as; If this program wasn't a good thing why is Bill Gothard still up and running, and opening more centers around the world? Why did social services not find anything as to the "allegations" that we're brought forth? Why do so many have such good things to say about the seminars? I could only answer to what I know, and as far as why has he had more centers opened,because most people are doing the same as her and her husband are doing right at this very time,accepting what they are told to be the God's to honest truth and it does look like a excellant program, but why then have people who we're ATI families for years finally seen the program isn't what Bill presented it to be and couldn't decifer it was ok to leave that BG isn't the judge of heavan and hell but God is, and once they saw what the Bible meant not what BG implied they have left, and BG's #'s are down tremendously. The answer to why Social services never came back w/ any findings in their investigations, is because as I have stated before the mother who flew here from out of state (ATI family)to remove her boys and take them out, stated that the oldest had shared with her that, administration knew social services was comming and they removed kids and sent them to other centers, only those they could "trust" stayed to answer what they had been trained! As far as the seminars, many have sat and listened and the approach was a answer many are looking for and are willing to pay to get more answers on how to live their lives, and she had even stated her husband fell asleep during the conferece! People need to realize we don't have to pay a thing, the price was already paid when Jesus shed his blood, and for BG to take the Word of God and change it for his gain, it's very disheartning! What is so sad is that people have faith in a "program" or "seminars" but not in themselves! Chelle Chelle

Talk to strangers?

Three Rivers Area • Mar 10, 2004 10:23 PM

Compassion is the trait from what I read, wow! This again is the compassion that Gothard teaches not the passion or compassion taught by Jesus Christ according to my Bible. If someone could explain how a city can be so IGNORANT to the teachings and condone them to others who are not ignorant, but are doing something that they feel is something worth teaching to grown adults, and children! Come on who has common sense, each and every single one of you, and how do I know because God gave this "trait" to you individually and as a city! I'm not trying to belittle anyone at all, but pay close attention to what I'm about to share with you PLEASE! Mothers who are ATI families (Advanced training seminar)teach their own flesh and blood what they refer to as "Blanket Training", this is done when a child is able to begin sitting on a blanket, adn when the child begins to move off the blanket the mother hits the child, and places it back on the blanket. Once the child learns not to go off the blanket it's "perimiter" the mother than takes a cookie or something that the child would want and teases the child with that object and tempts the child to get off the blanket, and again the child is hit, with even at times an object like a wooden spoon, wooden ruler, or whatever the mother uses! Now, use the BRAIN God gave to you collectivly, and think how have you been placed on a blanket in that city? The CF program has been implimented, and then as soon as it was challenged, people were teased, and taunted to come off the blanket and change their minds, because this is a program that's needed for what purpose? To keep you individually and as a community trying to focus on staying within the teachings of Bill Gothard. They state it's not used as a "religious" program and again that's the control, so that it can be taught to your children! Looking from the outside in,yeah sure it looks GREAT! But,how many of you are willing to contact Bill Gothard personally or as a city council and say; Come to a board meeting, answer the questions that we have, show your compassion to a dying world Bill,or how many are actually willing to pay the $ amount to actually sit through the seminars that are taught, and even go and pay more $ to belong to the org. that started all the controversy that your city and many others are still trying to stop! What makes my husband sick is Gothards army gets recognized more than the United States Army! We know Gothards numbers are the lowest that they have been in many years,myself and many want to make sure that our tax dollars and children do not make him what he is any longer! So many have come out of that org. and spoke the truth and exposed the deception, so let's show true COMPASSION to those who know the character of the teachings, and get this out of our citites and schools and our childrens lives once and for all! Be thankful you know the truth, and accept how destructive this all can be if it comes to a city near you... Hugs from Indy Chelle Chelle